Analysis of Possible Nations Adopting Bitcoin as Legal Currency [Bitcoin Geekend]

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  • Analysis of Possible Nations Adopting Bitcoin as Legal Currency [Bitcoin Geekend]
  • First nation adopting Bitcoin as legal currency

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Comments (76)

  • Shemar Emmerich Reply

    "BITCOIN CANNOT EVER BECOME A SIGNIFICANT CURRENCY FOR LEGAL COMMERCE" HUH?!

  • Haylee Little Reply

    Hi, is it legal to use a bitcoin mixing service in India assuming no illegal activity?

  • Shanon Willms Reply

    Is bitcoin even legal in India?

  • Jamaal Jerde Reply

    If Coinbase beats the IRS over the head with their legal teams dick then I will start using them to buy bitcoin again.

  • Brionna Feeney Reply

    Yeah if he sells a few Bitcoin he will end up spending days in line trying to get legal fiat...

  • Lenna Hyatt Reply

    No the whole point is to have legal bitcoin infrastructure in the US.

  • Ashtyn Moen Reply

    bitcoin is easy and legal. same as hard cash. no trail

  • Florence Spencer Reply

    Who would accept non legal tender for Bitcoin without a fee?

  • Ericka Douglas Reply

    Eso es un mojón mental estilo /r/amibeingdetained no han jodido con el BTC porque muy poca gente lo usa en contraste al dólar. Sin embargo hace no tanto tiempo metieron presos a mineros de BTC utilizando que? Ley de ilícitos cambiarlos. Hasta empezó a salir vainas en VTV sobre "bitcoin siendo la moneda del terrorismo" y más paja así. En este país en un peo legal por circumvent al control cambiaría usando BTC, pierdes eso porque si. Ahora obviamente en este país se le hace la vista gorda a mucha vaina, así como el mierdero de gente que compra y vende dolares y no van presos. Pero esa paja de que no te puedes meter en peos porque teeeecnicamente no está clasificado como una divisa, el que crea esa vaina es bien caído de la mata. Y bueno.. Ponle que al fondo fondo te digan que OK, BTC no es una divisa y no te metes en peo. OK, pero no puede comprar nada en Amazon con eso, o transferir por dolares los BTC ni hacer nada que no sea venderlos por bolívares de nuevo. O vuelves al peo de ilícitos cambiarios

  • Stanford Franecki Reply

    At this point I don't really care if it's legal or not It's easy enough to do already, especially with Bitcoin

  • Burnice Corkery Reply

    Why not? Bitcoin is a secure de-centralized currency. Perfect for the market of legal marijuana.

  • Royce Kemmer Reply

    Bitcoin is not legal tender. You cannot pay your public and private debts in Bitcoin.

  • Orion Walsh Reply

    mira aqui hablan de ello: http://sobrebitcoin.com/bitcoin-mexico-dinero-legal-regulado/ ( sorry por no poner la fuente del diario oficial pero vaya, creo que no es necesario en el articulo lo explican chido )

  • Alex Schuppe Reply

    Bitcoin is legal in Venezuela, but they probably still shoot you for that sort of ting.

  • Katarina Fay Reply

    I thought it was anticipation the Icelandic Pirate Party wins and makes Bitcoin legal tender! Or Nigeria!

  • Milford Leannon Reply

    Icelanders would rather elect that immoral degenerate than risk having Bitcoin as their legal tender?

  • Icie Mosciski Reply

    at this point i wouldn't make Bitcoin legal tender.. China controls a good portion of Bitcoins iirc

  • Rae Bode Reply

    > A shop can still refuse your bitcoin payment A shop can't refuse cash because it's legal tender.

  • Leonard Nolan Reply

    > t bitcoin is only useful for illegal activities? Ok, I agree with that. No, It is useful for legal activities as well , but primary use case is for regulatory arbitrage.

  • Elinore Bogan Reply

    >an industrial waste product Citation please. And if your link leads to a website trying to sell me gold, "legal herbs", or takes bitcoin, you can just give up now.

  • Sherwood Will Reply

    "As well as promising to accept Bitcoin as legal tender, Iceland’s Pirates have pledged to maintain the country’s economic stability."

  • Maximilian Beer Reply

    But, it's 0 effort task, and costs nothing (except, donations to party from banks).. announcing bitcoin as a legal tender.

  • Lilliana Pacocha Reply

    It's already a legal tender in most western countries. If it wasn't, then you'd be at risk accepting bitcoin payments.

  • Watson Johnson Reply

    Yes you are. You claim that bitcoin is used more for legal payments than for illegal ones. Can you give any evidence for that?

  • Gustave Armstrong Reply

    There is no legal online sportsbetting. Your best bet is bitcoin + nitrogen if staying anonymous is your top concern.

  • Malinda Crist Reply

    That is not a trick, that is absolutely legal scheme as soon as Reserve bank of NZ does not recognise bitcoin as a currency.

  • Webster Huels Reply

    What do you need doing? what's it for? PM me if you like i'm a known entity in the Bitcoin space. Most important is it legal?

  • Carrie Greenfelder Reply

    You mean, make shit up like "bitcoin is used more for legal payments than for illegal ones"?

  • Jon Thiel Reply

    Buying bitcoin is 100% legal. Its safe because it is legal. They do not give a fuck about you buying bitcoin.

  • Gideon Reichel Reply

    There are many **foreign-based websites** that allow it, but gambling with Bitcoin is not legal in the U.S.

  • Percival Cummerata Reply

    Thanks for the explanation! Is tumbling considered legal because Bitcoin is not legal tender?

  • Rocio Rippin Reply

    All this also has a legal side, up until recently bitcoin hasn't even been considered as real money.

  • Mikayla Jones Reply

    If i pay zebpay and dont get bitcoin can i take any legal action?

  • Ubaldo Ziemann Reply

    As long as you tumble, you're fine. Buying Bitcoin is perfectly legal.

  • Erich Anderson Reply

    Perfectly legal. Has the same affects as LSD. Just figure out how to use Bitcoin and a Bitcoin tumbler and they ship that shit right to you.

  • Danial Turner Reply

    Perfectly legal. Has the same affects as LSD. Just figure out how to use Bitcoin and a Bitcoin tumbler and they ship that shit right to you.

  • Travis Nikolaus Reply

    Buyiing bitcoin is legal, right? Except for NY unless its from someone with a license or w/e. I wouldn't worry about it.

  • Bailey White Reply

    I buy via the cheapest legal means (Bitcoin exchange last time I checked) and then transfer via shapeshift.io

  • Destin Zieme Reply

    what on earth are you talking about? bitcoin is definitely legal.

  • Malvina Stokes Reply

    This would all be so much easier if Bitcoin was legal.

  • Lucious Cassin Reply

    I totally agree. It'll get worse with these silly "associations" that are cropping up (ES Force, WESA, and the American one). They're going for power grabs and stomping out all of the lower stuff that Tier 2 teams tend to play in (such as Op Kinguin, Hitbox, etc.). Can't get to Tier 1 without going past Tier 2 but soon it'll be to the point where you can't play Tier 2 cause all of the tournaments that support them are gone. KoN is still there but that's not a good measure since it's always PUG. Rising Stars isn't bad (it's where MK, then GPlay, got their start) but who knows if that'll survive. You have the local scene but again, not really helpful since you don't get to play other countries. The gambling will take time to rebuild through BitCoin. Skins were easy to acquire if you were under 18 but kids will soon figure out how to get mommy and daddy to buy them skins or buy BTC from a BTC ATM. Then it'll get right back to building up eSports betting. But this time, the smaller stuff will be sponsored by the legal gambling sites (GG Masters by Fanobet, World Cyber Area by Betway, etc.).

  • Florencio Stark Reply

    Simple php site, no database needed for now. It will be about bitcoin. All legal.

  • Beaulah Fay Reply

    Wanna bet with bitcoin? Lol if it were only legal in the US.

  • Jace Grant Reply

    He does support BitCoin as legal currency, though.

  • Haven Considine Reply

    Good luck with legal pursuit of action in this circumstance. There is a reason why bitcoin is used on the darknet markets.

  • Myron Walker Reply

    > Bittorrent BitTorrent and Bitcoin are used for plenty of legal purposes. Other than that, I partially agree.

  • Wallace Lowe Reply

    It's probably like those torrenting bitcoin viruses except this one is legal and you don't get as much money.

  • Naomie Stamm Reply

    This is good for bitcoin because it means legal coins are rarer and thus more valuable. (See everything bad is good)

  • Magdalen Dach Reply

    It's not legit. You pay in bitcoin. But it's as legal as r/nflstreams

  • Barry Hintz Reply

    In China Bitcoin is legal but discouraged.

  • Cornell Schiller Reply

    Serious question: What are the legal reasons people use bitcoin and tor? Because everyone I know uses it for drugs (at least).

  • Erika Metz Reply

    Adopt bitcoin as the legal tender.

  • Christophe Stamm Reply

    In Earth orbit right now. Moon when legal sites like chaturbate integrate Monero support Mars when DNMs ditch bitcoin

  • Domenica Purdy Reply

    As someone who spends money before reading agreements then threatens legal action maybe Bitcoin isn't for you

  • Gabrielle Murphy Reply

    > Libertarian and even anarcho-capitalist philosophy still posits the existence of some sort of legal framework, a traditional court system for the former and polycentric legal systems for the latter. > The point still stands that some sort of limitations on the tactics used to "recover stolen property" would exist. Agreed. Which I specifically covered in my reply to /u/juststopdude. > > If I suspect you stole from me, I cannot just proceed to threaten you or break into your home to look for said property. > That would hold true even in a Libertarian/NAP construct. There would be limitations, in fact they are, in part, covered within the NAP and the various interpretations thereof. As discussed with /u/juststopdude I cannot simply claim you stole from me and break into your house. But if I catch you in my house, I'd have recourse to facilitate recovery and cessation of the theft. I could even follow you. Now, if I find you at the mall with my property (that's provable, such as in the Bitcoin world), what happens then? >> It's common for rewards (of a cash nature) to be provided for those who provide information that leads to the recovery of stolen property (including monies). This BFX bounty can certainly be seen as a direct equivalent or at least extension. > No, they're qualitatively different... Cash rewards for information work because presumably the cash is worth more to the informant than keeping the information to themselves. If you know 70-year old Whitey Bulger is living in the apartment next to you, it doesn't really cost you anything to rat him out, but you get the reward in return. Has it been definitely defined by BFX that such an information exchange is not a valid condition for the reward? > Cash for cash reward is different, because it essentially relies completely on the altruism and goodwill of the "rewardee". Absolutely, in fact I think that's the point of this thread, no? I agree, that compared to the information-exchange rewards, this is different and that it introduces additional motives. Would you (the collective theoretical, not you specifically) turn in tens of millions for just millions? Some would, some wouldn't. This reward paradox becomes even more complicated by the taint of the funds. Of course we're back to the typical property reward scenario. If I accidentally drop a gold bar while moving, I may very well offer a reward, and someone may very well return the gold to me in exchange for the reward. Again, the BFX bounty is hardly outside of the realm of reason. > And I'm simply pointing out that the situation is a little more complicated than that. What happens if the thieves have moved money to different addresses? I am by no means down-playing the complications to this matter. This is certainly a complicated matter, from how the theft was perpetuated, to how the money will be realized by the theft, to even how funds (if any) will be recovered. This is all around a very complicated situation. The point was simply that recovery of stolen property can fit into a Libertarian paradigm. And rewarding such recovery is not in violation of the Libertarian philosophy either. > What happens if the thieves have moved money to different addresses? Simple movement of the funds from one address to another have no baring on my comments. In fact, you skipped my example proposals where the funds could be returned, even by the attacker(s): > 1. The attacker(s) voluntarily returns the money > 1. An individual/group whom the attacker(s) send the money to, returns the money > 1. Another exchange whom receives the stolen money, returns the money > 1. The keys to the current (or future) holding address(es) (of these stolen funds) are compromised cryptographically. ^\(Thought ^I ^will ^admit, ^this ^would ^start ^to ^become ^unprecedented, ^legally\) Even if the funds have been moved, they could (in theory) be _rightfully_ recovered. > What happens if they've already spent the money? How could one ever tell the difference? Now I think you bring up a good point that we can firmly base a Libertarian discussion on. If the attacker(s) spend the money for another good or service, the removal of funds from that good/service provider is theft. But again, you overlook the fact that the good/service provider can simply elect to take those funds and provide them back to BFX without providing the good or service to the attacker(s), and this wouldn't be theft. Even in the current prevailing legal paradigm you can't deal in stolen property. Now if the chain of custody is any deeper, this would become a major problem. Say for instance the attacker(s) spend to one vendor, whom has now paid to a second "altruistic" vendor. If that second vendor takes the funds without providing the agreed upon good or service, they would be stealing from the original vendor. The pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin transactions can certainly make the trail murky and quickly lead to a case where rightful recovery is _nearly_ impossible to prove. So yes, it can get very complicated. And it _could_ be theft. But that doesn't immediately make any and all recovery theft. > And what does "theft" even mean here? What higher claim to the "owner" of the bitcoins exists outside of the blockchain? Ah. That's a great question. One I'm not sure the community has yet answered. Yet, we saw that claim within Etherum and we saw how that turned out!

  • Raphael Tremblay Reply

    Don't gimme that. This whole scheme is more or less illegal. The whole bitcoin ecosystem is a legal gray area.

  • Kaya Anderson Reply

    In a legal dispute I wonder how one can prove being the one who paid the bitcoin.

  • Brice Marvin Reply

    > There is legal limitations to recovering stolen property. You can't commit another crime in the attempt go seek your property back. Sure, that's true in some locales based on their current laws and legal standards. However, I didn't speak of a specific location nor was I even speaking about any existing legal framework. I spoke specifically of Libertarian philosophy. > If I suspect you stole from me, I cannot just proceed to threaten you or break into your home to look for said property. That would hold true even in a Libertarian/NAP construct. Now within the current, prevailing, legal paradigm: > It just strikes me as fairly unprecedented to offer a "cash for cash" bounty. I don't think this is unprecedented. The owner of a wallet may, at times, reward a party for returning their wallet with the contents intact. I've even seen rewards for such _posted_. ^I ^am ^speaking, ^of ^course, ^of ^a ^physical ^wallet ^in ^the ^physical ^world, ^though ^this ^is ^equally ^true ^for ^cryptocurrencies. It's common for rewards (of a cash nature) to be provided for those who provide information that leads to the recovery of stolen property (including monies). This BFX bounty can certainly be seen as a direct equivalent or at least extension. In fact, this isn't even the first case of a Bitcoin or Cryptocurrency related entity offering a reward for the return of their funds. Furthermore, violation of the law is not necessarily required in the receipt and execution of this bounty. Here are some examples of legal repossession: 1. The attacker(s) voluntarily returns the money 1. An individual/group whom the attacker(s) send the money to, returns the money 1. Another exchange whom receives the stolen money, returns the money 1. The keys to the current (or future) holding address(es) (of these stolen funds) are compromised cryptographically. ^\(Thought ^I ^will ^admit, ^this ^would ^start ^to ^become ^unprecedented, ^legally\) I'm sure there are even other scenarios for which I didn't conclude that could be both legal and eligible for the bounty reward. But look we're getting well into hysteria here. BFX has lost a massive sum of money, they've elected to offer a reward for the return of the money. How that happens isn't likely even relevant to them, they simply want and need the funds back. Offering a reward, is certainly not unethical or immoral. Depending on the methodology for the return, it isn't even necessarily illegal. And I certainly wouldn't call it unprecedented. Yet none of that had any baring on my initial comment. I was simply pointing out that /u/Spats_McGee both spoke of Ayn Rand and (presumably) considered the recovery of stolen property to be theft. Such a view is inconsistent with the Libertarian philosophy, something someone who knows of Ayn Rand likely is also familiar with.

  • Nathan Cole Reply

    You do need to provide ID to cashout to Bitcoin for legal reasons.

  • Stacey Wyman Reply

    If its legal why is bitcoin needed?

  • Kristopher Yost Reply

    [Here's a discussion](http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin/comments/4x159r/_/) on the MtGox legal fees.

  • Clotilde Kassulke Reply

    ho-lee shit, this asshole thinks pay-pal is still a thing. pay-pal ain't legal amigo. this is bitcoin county

  • Edgardo Larson Reply

    I didn't have any bitcoin at all on mt finex, but they've decided to rob me anyway...cuz fuq legal.

  • Nola Davis Reply

    Bitcoin didn't fail. This has always been what bitcoin was best at. Normal people already have normal people money to buy normal legal things.

  • Dorris Green Reply

    Not a chance, Bitcoin is 100% legal.

  • Toni Rolfson Reply

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  • Ezekiel Ryan Reply

    I read the news in spanish http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/2755294/0/detenidos-mineria-bitcoin-moneda-digital/ and the only thing not legal that has some connection with Bitcoin, is that they where stealing electricity to power on their mining operation. But wasn't their main "business"...

  • Baylee Greenfelder Reply

    > However, be aware that virtually nobody spends Bitcoin on legal things. So you're saying weed dealers should start accepting BTC?

  • Alize Walsh Reply

    Florida Judge: Drug dealers, please come to Miami and launder your money using bitcoin, its legal now.

  • Anne Medhurst Reply

    >Keep it legal Well, I know of at least one guy who ran a bitcoin node and mined them. Free electricity in the Bs, hoo-ah

  • Patricia Dibbert Reply

    I just use circle to cash out but I don't use Bitcoin solely for buying fakes. I also buy some legal things here and there.

  • Belle Balistreri Reply

    psh deep web and bitcoin tumbling is too much work. I get mine on clearnet and no it's not legal here haha

  • Candelario Heller Reply

    And a VPN and Seedbox paid with bitcoin and only download legal linux distros. There you go.

  • Bridie Smitham Reply

    Bitcoin acts as both but the law doesn't recognize it as legal tender.

  • Asha Schamberger Reply

    Bitcoin betting bro. Pm me if you want more details. 100% legal in the US.

  • Virgil Bruen Reply

    If it's legal why the bitcoin?